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Bring back the old Stamina System

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Mighty Spirit the 2
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Bring back the old Stamina System

Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:48 pm

Hi, so in order to strengthen the current melee system i suggest to bring back the old stamina system.

What i mean by this is that currently, whenever you press grab, you loose a bit of your energy. In addition if you do land the grab, you won't recover any energy either - the stamina bar does not fill up. Thus using grabs while also punching, kicking + jumping you end up using all of energy leading you to perform slow melee - not a lot of running back and forth and action.
I get that before people complained that grabs where overpowered. However there was a huge incentive to start grabbing, after i did some testing in beta 1.02c i found out that grabbing consumes no energy at all, and fills up the stamina bar while waiting 1-2 sec with a person trapped in grab. This and "quicker rolling" before lead to some very intense and fast fights - I for example used to hold in the sprint button while fighting. But with the current melee system that is no longer possible to do as our attacks take up way too much energy - and nothing gets replenished. This forces me to do quick damage combos and then get out and wait for my energy to refill. - no long and epic melee fights anymore
To me it has always been the fighting which made Superfighters Deluxe special and which really drew me inn. I mean there are a lot of other 2d games with plenty of guns. To me it was always melee that put the "Fight" in "SuperFighters" - not "SuperShooters Deluxe".
And to me the last straw is that while i'm holding my opponent in the grab, it is in fact HE WHO IS RECOVERING STAMINA, and not me the aggressor. That means that after i have done a grab-punch, he can come back at me full force with renewed energy and speed, and i'm helplessly trying to fend him off with absolutely no energy left to run away. The fact that grabs also benefit my enemy and don't really help me the aggressor (only a little damage), means that i'm actually better of not grabbing, instead using timed punches with a weapon that includes both range and deals the same damage as a grab.
I've actually noticed this for a while now, i honestly think there are less people grabbing now in melee fights then before, grabs are mostly used as a finisher for combos. Isn't this like strengthening Pre-Alpha melee again?

Another example of me getting annoyed by this change is that when i have little health left and i conveniently grab a dead body to protect myself of an automatic gun, i don't recover any energy for as long as i am holding the body, meaning that when i eventually drop the body and try to do a dive away i fail completely and get absolutely destroyed by a hail of bullets. Or i just don't have enough energy left to manage to jump over to the other side of a gap, keep in mind that i just used the last of my stamina to grab that body! Before people could grab dead bodies here and there, wait for a while and do a swift escape from an incoming attack or with a full stamina bar opponent - leading to faster gameplay.

And although i don't like the dramatic changes in the new melee system, i can live without quick rolling, what i can't live with is this slow melee where grabs (unless instakill-throw) don't benefit me (the player) as much as they used to.
I don't know how to make this more appealing to the rest of you readers, but i want fast action-packed melee back, not the slow, sluggish, "clunky" timing melee we have now. Heck i even prefer the old Pre-Alpha melee, before grab, as that was a lot faster and exiting and reliable then the one we have now. The new change to grabbing (well, that and the new melee system) has really put me of melee fighting altogether, people are better of not taking the risk, since it is an unnecessary waste of our precious energy, its more effective to do a quick combo and then get out and pull out a gun. But i don't want to play Superfighters Deluxe using only guns - like i said the old melee was cool (and hard, and skillfull) for me as a complete "New Player" outsider.
Anyway i don't understand why you would implement this change anyway. What was wrong with the old stamina system? Now that "quick rolling" has been removed i don't see why you would want to cripple melee even more.

Please, if you support my idea give a like or comment below, if you don't also tell me why. Let's start a discussion. :?:
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Evilsack
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Post by Evilsack » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:48 pm

Yea, the stamina change was apparent and it still baffles me that the devs would think that changing stamina consumption would at all benefit the fighting systems put in place.
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Gurt
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Post by Gurt » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 pm

"i honestly think there are less people grabbing now in melee fights then before"
The majority of the feedback after grab was introduce was that it's too easy to perform. If players are grabbing less frequently now than before our changes to steer the grab towards a more situational and risky move seem to have worked.

All changes when it comes to melee since several years back are direct results from feedback. We just don't go about and change things without reason "just because we feel like it". There's always some feedback and though process behind all decisions and changes we make since the Beta. Last topic about grab and stamina during the Beta:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2460&start=80

As you're mentioning this change also affects how you interact with dead bodies. The meta play where you could grab dead bodies to recharge stamina is now gone. We will not revert the stamina usage when grabbing alive players but you can keep the discussion open if the stamina should recharge when holding dead bodies as there's always pros and cons with how the game can be played out when changing these kind of things.
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RickAvory
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Post by RickAvory » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:08 am

Gurt wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 pm
"i honestly think there are less people grabbing now in melee fights then before"
The majority of the feedback after grab was introduce was that it's too easy to perform. If players are grabbing less frequently now than before our changes to steer the grab towards a more situational and risky move seem to have worked.

All changes when it comes to melee since several years back are direct results from feedback. We just don't go about and change things without reason "just because we feel like it". There's always some feedback and though process behind all decisions and changes we make since the Beta. Last topic about grab and stamina during the Beta:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2460&start=80

As you're mentioning this change also affects how you interact with dead bodies. The meta play where you could grab dead bodies to recharge stamina is now gone. We will not revert the stamina usage when grabbing alive players but you can keep the discussion open if the stamina should recharge when holding dead bodies as there's always pros and cons with how the game can be played out when changing these kind of things.
You must understand that these changes greatly add up Gurt. Ever since after 1.0.2c the stiffness of melee and movement in general has been very apparent. We understand that you are listening to potential ideas, but when you incorporate multiple one after the other it can drastically change how we play without even knowing.
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Evilsack
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Post by Evilsack » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:09 pm

I agree that the reduction in grabs has satisfied a great deal of players, but the fact that this change impacts the rest of the melee system is too great of a disadvantage. It means that games stretch out for a while since nobody really wants to brawl. It leads to low ceiling punch to kick to grab combos since you get caught running away from a melee situation. This ultimately leads to instant death. It gets to the point where you can't even prevent certain situations due to your actions and you're at the grace of the game.
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