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1.9.2b Melee weapon ranges (Kick range added!)

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1.9.2b Melee weapon ranges (Kick range added!)

Post by Lunatic » Tue May 17, 2016 12:31 am

EDIT: 1.9.2b! All the weapon ranges are still the same, though I did find the time to test kick ranges so that we know how far they go. I still need to test vertical ranges (how far up/down a weapon can hit while standing/crouching, I can do this one) and I would love to test air attack ranges, but I can't do those until I get a better idea for them (they're probably the same as their standing range anyway haha, I'm mostly interested in their vertical hitboxes). That said, testing kicks was difficult because you can't use my shuffle method to get in range with kicks since it seems you don't shuffle when you actually hit someone. Hopefully I can get around to testing vertical hitboxes soon, but it's going to be tough.

After this patch's fixes to character hurtboxes, I figured things would be more stable than ever for testing. I also got curious about weapon ranges, and I wanted to see if everything lined up like I thought they did. Well, they didn't, and it was crazy surprising to see which weapons ended up longest (well, aside from the katana, but that's a given). Exact pixel values will be posted at the bottom of the thread.

I tested these weapon ranges through a little bit of messing around. It turns out, every time you perform an attack, you have this slight chance to slide forward exactly one pixel. Using this method, I was able to determine exactly what one pixel was necessary to put me in range to hit, thus determining how large the weapon is. It also allowed me to confirm that player hurtboxes are exactly the border from their shoulder down to their waist! The outermost portion of border can be struck! That's big news.

So here are all the weapon ranges, found by continuously attacking with the first swing until I slid in one pixel and thus the next hit was able to connect, without also doing a slide forward. From there, I just counted pixels, starting on the pixel outside of the attacker's hurtbox, and ending one pixel into the victim's hurtbox (which is the longest possible range for the weapon to connect).

http://i.imgur.com/xPWuLXU.png

Considering I can't embed images over 800 pixels in size, you'll have to open the image in another tab, sorry. Feel free to download the image and count the pixels from hurtbox to hurtbox yourselves, the numbers there are accurate. I forgot to write in the baton's range; it's 50 pixels. Here's the fun part, though.

http://i.imgur.com/xUlscEP.png

Look at that! This was incredible to find. Katana outranges the bat by a measly 3 pixels! The top picture was counting the pixels between the hurtboxes while I was still one pixel away from hitting my target. The bottom picture, as described, is one pixel in range, allowing the tip of the weapon's hitbox to connect with my targets hurtbox. Since the numbers match... There are the guaranteed numbers! The rest of the images from above were done with the one pixel in will-connect pixel counts.

Here are the values typed out for easier reading:

Kicks: 24
Fists: 27
Pipe Wrench: 37
Hammer: 37
Fire Axe: 44
Machete: 44
Baton: 50
Baseball Bat: 64
Katana: 67

I plan on testing the other improv weapons later, but for now, here are the regular weapons (and cue stick). I can't believe the baseball bat has THAT MUCH RANGE!!! It's also super surprising to see how short the axe is!

EDIT: Here's some improv weapon stuff!

Suitcase: 44
Bottle: 37
Broken Bottle: 34
Chair: 47
Chair Leg: 37
Cue Stick: 75
Broken Cue Stick: 44

http://i.imgur.com/BXFTI0m.png

The chair is deceptively large, reaching well past it's sprite. Don't be fooled!
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Post by Zyfex » Tue May 17, 2016 12:33 am

haha when did bat get some range
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Post by gwendalaze » Tue May 17, 2016 1:38 am

i tought the cue stick was even longer !
AND WTF is going on with axe(incredibly short) / baseball bat (roflstomping long) o_O ?
Wasn't the baton meant as a weak weapon with long damage ? because it gets steamrolled by the superior baseball bat : 11.5 HP > 10.5HP; 64px > 50px, while both got a spawn rate of 25. Also, I think that they should slightly buff the axe, it really feels bad right now.
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Post by Lunatic » Tue May 17, 2016 2:03 am

Are you kidding? Axe deals 14 per swing, which is just 1 less than the Katana. These pixels aren't a huge difference, it's really subtle unless you're comparing them to fists. Axe still has considerable range (beating hammer and pipe) while having large damage - a fair trade for a weapon of it's caliber. I like it.

Bat is probably the best all-rounder right now. It doesn't reflect, but it does good damage with superior range, as well as being able to launch grenades.
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Post by SEM » Wed May 18, 2016 9:16 pm

Is the Axe range changed from the update or is it still the same?
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Post by gwendalaze » Wed May 18, 2016 9:22 pm

Lunatic wrote:Are you kidding? Axe deals 14 per swing, which is just 1 less than the Katana. These pixels aren't a huge difference, it's really subtle unless you're comparing them to fists. Axe still has considerable range (beating hammer and pipe) while having large damage - a fair trade for a weapon of it's caliber. I like it.

Bat is probably the best all-rounder right now. It doesn't reflect, but it does good damage with superior range, as well as being able to launch grenades.
Yeah Maybe not modifying the axe, but the baton is still totally inferior to the baseball bat : less range/damage, SAME spawn rate
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Post by Lunatic » Wed May 18, 2016 11:43 pm

SEM wrote:Is the Axe range changed from the update or is it still the same?
I'm actually very curious about this. I'm going to go test 1.8.8's range to see if it's changed or if it's the same.

EDIT: Not even testing exact ranges now, fire axe is connecting while machete is not. Already proven to have new, different ranges! Problem is, I can't seem to define where hitboxes and hurtboxes are. I can't tell if the player hurtbox is one out of the border or if the axe hitbox is one out of it's border, and since both the bat and machete don't have hitboxes anywhere near their tips, I can't get exact pixel ranges for weapons. Yowch! There's also a lot less visual cues to look for.
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Post by TheBlackshot » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:49 pm

Bat range is fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLjxYXhxxjE
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The album http://imgur.com/a/gKTvs including pre and post-hit
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Post by Lunatic » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:45 am

Looks like I need to go through all these and recount, testing the katana today returned different numbers than listed here. That said, the chain is longer than the katana.
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Post by Hjarpe » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:36 am

Lunatic wrote:Looks like I need to go through all these and recount, testing the katana today returned different numbers than listed here. That said, the chain is longer than the katana.
We haven't changed the range of the katana since 1.9.0 (we'll let you know in the patch notes when we do). The chain is indeed 0.5 pixels longer than the katana.
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Post by Lunatic » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:36 pm

Hjarpe wrote: We haven't changed the range of the katana since 1.9.0 (we'll let you know in the patch notes when we do). The chain is indeed 0.5 pixels longer than the katana.
I really appreciate that! That said, at what resolution/zoom is the game using when you say it's .5 pixels longer? Some maps are more zoomed in than others.
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Post by Gurt » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:32 pm

We measure in world units which is 1 "world pixel". A tile that's 8x8 in size is also 8x8 world units and also uses a texture that's 8x8 pixels. So when we say 0.5 pixels longer we mean 0.5 world pixels / world units longer. This is useful as we don't have to think about the zoom.
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Post by Lunatic » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:25 pm

Added in 7 seconds:
Gurt wrote:cool stuff gurt said
That's pretty smart! I still have some questions though.
What's the vertical range for attacks? How many world units, and where is it centered? This is a big one since mines that are flashing can be hit by crouching attacks but not mines that have stopped; furthermore, hitting opponents that are above us/aerial opponents can be a big deal. Is it just one world unit? Is it just the weapon sprite?

(I totally reposted this so I could quote you)
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