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PLEASE REMOVE "SERVER MOVEMENT" OF THE GAME

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Nets p2
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PLEASE REMOVE "SERVER MOVEMENT" OF THE GAME

Post by Nets p2 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:06 pm

Hi brothers, this new Option Server movement in game is sad, you can't play with +80 of the ping, this option give us much lag, teleporting, this is ridiculous, PLEASE REMOVE "SERVER MOVEMENT" :!:
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Last edited by Nets p2 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rick Sanchez
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:14 pm

Yeah it kinda sucks but its there and you can turn it off at will so no need to remove it.
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Post by Sree » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:38 pm

Yes please, spread the word! Server side movement is ridiculous and must be stopped.

turned off server movement in my server and the chances of me getting grab killed got reduced by 50% (REAL)
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Post by Ciro » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:00 pm

Perhaps turn it off by default instead of removing it? I'm sure Gurt had a good reason for implementing it.
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Post by Gurt » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm

Server movement is there to prevent your high ping and teleportation issues to be a trouble for everyone else on the server. It activates at a minimum of 100 ping (any lower is ignored) and by default is set to 150 in the latest version of the game. Any lower ping and it will work as before.

The way it works is that this puts the potential teleportation issues on the one with the high ping/unstable connection rather than "punishing" everyone else on the server seeing high latency players teleporting around. The host will have to pick whatever he decides is the best option when it comes to HIGH PING players.
If you have trouble with high ping servers your best option is to find another server with lower ping or host a game yourself or ask the host to disable this.
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Post by Splinter » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:00 pm

Both client-side movement and server-side movement have their pros and cons. Before client-side movement was implemented in 2015, we could play with 200 ping by adapting to the 200ms delay and predicting the opponent's moves. Some games like Street Fighter V even have a small input delay by default (100ms~ I think), but players can adapt easily after playing a few rounds. We're just not used to this input delay anymore.

So what are the pros and cons of each system?

Pros:
With client-side, you can move around the map with precision.
With server-side, you know exactly what's going on; your screen shows exactly what is happening in the server.

Cons:
With client-side, a lot of weird stuff can happen. Servers sometimes miscalculate the position of players and some collisions are wonky. You can shoot a laggy player perfectly and miss because he suddenly teleported backwards. You can punch a laggy player and suddenly he's behind your back punching you instead. Note that all of this can't be "fixed" magically; this literally happens because the game can't predict the future, although he tries.
With server-side, you have an input delay depending on your ping. If you have 100 ping, it will take 100ms for your actions to be executed on your screen.
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Post by Del Poncho » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:45 pm

Forcing server-side movement on a laggy player is not meant to help him, it's meant to save all the other players in the server from seeing that player lag and teleport around.
In some instances having a high ping could become an advantage, simply because it would scramble your character around the place, making yourself actually harder to hit - obviously only on the other player's pcs - just because the server had no idea where you actually where.

Also, it's worth noting that there isn't a single game (fast paced as SFD) that allows the pings that some players are asking.
Most action games usually require a ping not higher than 60 to be playable, and would probably autokick above 120.
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Post by Gurt » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 pm

There's a real reason why (most) modern games don't allow end users to set up their own games.
1: They can't verify that the hardware meets minimum requirements for a smooth experience.
2: They can't verify the hardware that deals with network packages (routers etc...).
3: They can't verify that the ping is less than a certain threshold, like 60.
4: They can't verify possible in-game progress for user accounts (cheats running on the server for example).
5: A lot more smaller things.

We allow all of that above. But don't expect to be able to run the game smoothly if you join a server with 200+ ping, or if the server is running some old CPU that barely can keep up and where the user have a buggy router or even drops packages that it can't handle.

The only REAL fix to the server movement issue is to add a hard limit on 100 ping or something and anything above that and you can't join. Add some stress-test routine to servers to check that they can perform well enough for an overall smooth experience and if that fails the server won't start. But that would be outrageous damn stupid (so we won't do that)! It's like an unfixable problem, so we let the host decide for themselves their own max ping cap and server movement threshold
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Post by Nets p2 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:15 am

Gurt wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 pm
There's a real reason why (most) modern games don't allow end users to set up their own games.
1: They can't verify that the hardware meets minimum requirements for a smooth experience.
2: They can't verify the hardware that deals with network packages (routers etc...).
3: They can't verify that the ping is less than a certain threshold, like 60.
4: They can't verify possible in-game progress for user accounts (cheats running on the server for example).
5: A lot more smaller things.

We allow all of that above. But don't expect to be able to run the game smoothly if you join a server with 200+ ping, or if the server is running some old CPU that barely can keep up and where the user have a buggy router or even drops packages that it can't handle.

The only REAL fix to the server movement issue is to add a hard limit on 100 ping or something and anything above that and you can't join. Add some stress-test routine to servers to check that they can perform well enough for an overall smooth experience and if that fails the server won't start. But that would be outrageous damn stupid (so we won't do that)! It's like an unfixable problem, so we let the host decide for themselves their own max ping cap and server movement threshold

I'm trying to use the translator to express myself better:
game is good because we can play with players from other countries and in this version this is not possible because the new game system does not allow us, even playing with people from my country this option influences and disrupts the gameplay of the game.
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Post by Noble » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:40 am

Just play in servers where this server movement is off if you dislike it, there are plenty of them.
You can also try to get better playing when this is activated, there's always room to improve, it's just something that you're not used to.
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Post by Nets p2 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:40 am

Noble wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:40 am
Just play in servers where this server movement is off if you dislike it, there are plenty of them.
You can also try to get better playing when this is activated, there's always room to improve, it's just something that you're not used to.
I disagree with this, first that we almost have no servers in the game, exemple 5 servers open 4 or 5 are with this option enabled, second it is not possible to play with this option "Server Movement" ok? Many players have stopped playing complaining about the lag that this option provides us with, thirdly this is hindering the game. :idea: :!:
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Post by Pricey » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:46 am

Adding to the original suggestion, it might be a good idea to display whether the server has server-side movement enabled before you join, in a similar way to how you can view the map or amount of players before you join a server.
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Post by MOOADAM » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 am

Pricey wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:46 am
Adding to the original suggestion, it might be a good idea to display whether the server has server-side movement enabled before you join, in a similar way to how you can view the map or amount of players before you join a server.
-Tbh I think that would be the best course of action

-For the record i hate serverside, mainly because i hate servside LAG more than i hate teleportation lag, ANd thats because minor teleportation is fine but with server side lag, my actions are delayed and its ACTUALY unplayable whenever my ping is over 85
-But like in the alpha without serverside my ping could be 200 and still playable.
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Post by Gurt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:35 am

MOOADAM wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 am
Pricey wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:46 am
Adding to the original suggestion, it might be a good idea to display whether the server has server-side movement enabled before you join, in a similar way to how you can view the map or amount of players before you join a server.
-Tbh I think that would be the best course of action

-For the record i hate serverside, mainly because i hate servside LAG more than i hate teleportation lag, ANd thats because minor teleportation is fine but with server side lag, my actions are delayed and its ACTUALY unplayable whenever my ping is over 85
-But like in the alpha without serverside my ping could be 200 and still playable.
Server side movements activates by default somewhere at 160 ping (don't remember exactly) and can never be activated lower than 100. So when you say 85 you're probably exaggerating (or your ping fluctuate above 100 all the time in a server where the host has lowered the default threshold). Just a matter of time before someone will claim that it's server side movement at 20 ping... As said before it's to "protect others" in the game from someone's high ping. Instead of you teleporting around for 7 other players (ruining their experience) you will have delayed controls and the other 7 players will see you smoothly run around (this assumes that the server runs well). No matter how we twist and turn things around to deal with high ping someone will always get the short end of the stick. It's the "lesser evil" with the problem of high ping and the direction we have chosen to go with.
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